AUDIO Police lies against employment policy of truth and also refusal to investigate the council staff.AUDIO RECORDING CHALLENGE TO (Halsted) YJ62 FNZ A638 officer and then Traffic officer afterwards
LINK>
www.bentcop.biz/1A638OperatorliesYJ62FNZ10.18am14September2014.mp3Dialogue to accompany MP3: A638 Operator YJ62 FNZ 10.18am 14 September 2014
(there will be another set of MP3 and dialogue to follow soon as afterwards I have an
challenging encounter with two community support officers and then a Police highways officer
when I return to my vehicle after removing one illegal size road sign (300mm 50mph sign) for
evidence to take to the police station because they are ignoring my letters and the council
already have lied to the police.
When visiting a Police mobile speed camera enforcement site to gather evidence of incorrect
road signage and illegitimate speed limit, I am presented with the vehicle actually being on
site. I take this opportunity to question the police vehicle operator at the A638 Ossett bypass,
on a Sunday at 10:18am, 14 September 2014. The vehicle registration number is YJ62 FNZ.
The operator is assumed to possibly be a CIV Robert Halstead. His appearance is kind of a
mix between corporal Jones of Dads Army and Steve Wright of BBC Radio 2.
I walk to the vehicle along the carriageway from a Lay-by and sit on the barrier to rest, then
knock on the back of the vehicle.
(knock knock. On police van)
(side window opens)
OPERATOR. Alright
CHALLENGER (me). Hello sir. Can I ask you what your doing?
OPERATOR. Yeah. Slowing people down.
CHALLENGER (me) . To what? What speed?
OPERATOR. 50.
CHALLENGER (me). . What speeds this road?
OPERATOR. 50
CHALLENGER (me). . I think you are lying sir.
OPERATOR. No the speed the signs say.
CHALLENGER (me). . What size are the signs?
OPERATOR. Which ones?
CHALLENGER (me). . Repeaters
OPERATOR. Repeaters? Smaller.
CHALLENGER (me). . What size sir?
OPERATOR. Correct size.
CHALLENGER (me). . No. What size are they sir? Tell me the number.
OPERATOR. Oh, I don't know.
CHALLENGER (me). . Have you measured them?
OPERATOR. Its not my job.
CHALLENGER (me). . It is you've got to check the signs before and after every enforcement
session. It is part of your job.
OPERATOR. Only the speed camera signs.
CHALLENGER (me). . No, you have to check the road signs as well.
OPERATOR. Actually, you don't need repeaters
CHALLENGER (me). . You don't need repeaters? That's a lie.
OPERATOR. Not on a dual carriageway.
CHALLENGER (me). . Sir, you are lying to me.
OPERATOR. That's alright.
CHALLENGER (me). . Right,.. its alright to lie?? It says here.. (documentation presented)
OPERATOR. Yep
CHALLENGER (me). . That the minimum size of a 50 sign is 45cm (4500mm) in the traffic
signs manual. Do you challenge that is wrong?
OPERATOR. IM not challenging it.
CHALLENGER (me). . And what size are some of these 50 ones?
OPERATOR. Which 50 ones?
CHALLENGER (me). . Some of these 50 ones, the smallest ones
OPERATOR. You should take this up with the council.
CHALLENGER (me). . IM asking you, sir. If you are not fully educated on road signs you
should not be doing this job as a police officer , or even a CIV.
OPERATOR. What would you do with the traffic signs.
CHALLENGER (me). . It says here when prescribed traffic signs are used illegally action
should be taken to secure their removal.
OPERATOR. Right that's the council.
CHALLENGER (me). . A police officer has the power to remove signs or put signs up.
OPERATOR. You can't touch the road signs.
CHALLENGER (me). . Have you reported any signs for being the wrong size?
OPERATOR. No.
CHALLENGER (me). No. Right.
OPERATOR. We can't remove signs and we can't put signs up.
CHALLENGER (me). . So lets move on to the next point, yeah? So if any of these signs are
the wrong size, you haven't checked them? And you don't know about it? Do you know you
need a terminal sign on both sides up by the roundabout?
OPERATOR. A terminal sign?
CHALLENGER (me). . Yeah. Can you see clearly there with your glasses (documentation
image presented) what it says?
OPERATOR. They are at both sides
CHALLENGER (me). . At that end? (points towards Owl lane entrance) you swearing on
your life that the 50 signs are at both sides of the roundabout?
OPERATOR, you can't see them because you have to slow down.
CHALLENGER (me). . Answer the question yes or no, is the 50mph terminal sign at that end
at both sides of the roundabout? Just answer yes or no.
OPERATOR. What do you mean both sides?
CHALLENGER (me). . What do I mean both sides?? Left and right.
OPERATOR. Yes.
CHALLENGER (me). . Up and down is like't sky an't floor. Left and right.
OPERATOR. Yes (it is there)
CHALLENGER (me). . Its not.
OPERATOR. OK.
CHALLENGER (me). . Its not been there since 2000
OPERATOR. OK.
CHALLENGER (me). . Right. So you can't legally enforce the speed limit on this road.
Because that signs not there (including no post) it says in section 85, chapter 27 of the road
traffic act 1984 if the traffic signs (plural) meaning more than one, are not all in place you
cannot be convicted of a speeding offence.
OPERATOR. Are you meaning when coming in from...?
CHALLENGER (me). . The entire road!
OPERATOR. If you go this way it changes from a 50..
CHALLENGER (me). . You are just trying to make excuses up now I think.
OPERATOR. OK.
CHALLENGER (me). . You can't enforce this road at 50mph because that sign is not in place
OPERATOR. Which sign?
CHALLENGER (me). . The signs I have just been talking about the terminal signs.
OPERATOR. If you look there you've got a 40 and a 30
CHALLENGER (me). Right.
OPERATOR. When you go from this road to the roundabout
CHALLENGER (me). . Do you know this roundabout? Every single road off that roundabout
is a different speed, so it needs all exits because nobody knows.
OPERATOR. We are not enforcing the other roads
CHALLENGER (me). . That's got nothing to do with the fact that. Im telling you every single
one of those roads is a different speed so nobody knows what the speed is until they get off
the roundabout.
OPERATOR. They should know what its meant to be because...
CHALLENGER (me). . Part of what you've just said is true. They do know because of the
National speed limits.
OPERATOR. Its not a National speed limit.
CHALLENGER (me). . Every single road in the country is a national speed limit
OPERATOR. Do you know what a national speed limit is?
CHALLENGER (me). . A national speed limit is a speed limit set automatically by the
construction type of the road. Which includes 30mph areas with lit, with lit street lamps which
doesn't even need signs there.
OPERATOR. That's a restricted road. Which is a 30,
CHALLENGER (me). . Right. Were going on to the next point now, we will forget the signs.
OPERATOR. Have you got a point here, because IM busy (operator has work to do)
CHALLENGER (me). . Well, yes because you are committing fraud and you are going to go
to prison.
OPERATOR. Im not committing fraud
CHALLENGER (me). . You are fraudulently enforcing the speed limit.
OPERATOR. Why don't you report it then?
CHALLENGER (me). . I've reported it but the police are ignoring the reports because they
don't want to get the naughty tick next to their statistics.
OPERATOR. Go and see a solicitor.
CHALLENGER (me). . I don't need a solicitor, the police are supposed to enforce the law.
The police get solicitors (CPS) I am paying - the Crown Prosecution service are my solicitor
for the civil people
OPERATOR. Right you need to go do it with them.
CHALLENGER (me). . No because they wont do it.- I've repeatedly done it. (reported it to
them)
OPERATOR and where's it got you?
CHALLENGER (me). . Because your colleagues don't want to be slapped on the bottom for
being naughty, do you? (any of them police, cps, courts, government)
OPERATOR. I will take whatever comes to me, whatever you say.
CHALLENGER (me). . Road traffic regulation section 2 (road traffic act)
(operator closes window)
(A raising of voice to be heard inside vehicle)
Section 2, you cannot change the speed limit on a set road because a traffic regulation order
does not give the power to do such. So a 50mph speed limit on this road is not even true, its
pretend and fantasy
(I walk away)
AUDIO RECORDING 2. Traffic patrol officer 614 and PSO's A638
LINK>
www.bentcop.biz/2A638TrafficOFFICER614and2Communitysupportofficers11.09am14Sept2014.mp3After Challenging police vehicle YJ62 FNZ for enforcing a speed limit against section .85 of
the road traffic act where incorrect signage is in place and an incorrect TRO, on the way back
to the Lay by I remove an illegal 300mm 50mph sign from the road side with the tools to take
to the police station to present as evidence that the road has illegal road signs that are an
obstruction by law. As I get back to my vehicle in the Lay-by, two community support officers
meet me from their car that has now arrived (i am guessing YJ62 FNZ requested them via
radio) . They want me to restore the road sign. I say it is not legal and am not offending by
removing it. I present much documentation and ask if they will record a crime report against
the council and police. They refuse to acknowledge any crimes or illegal signs. They call a
constable to attend. So we wait until the Police patrol vehicle turns up (about 5 mins) . I greet
the officer and have a brief sparring with him. I then realise I might be done for stealing if they
want to be funny as they claim the police station is closed sundays so i cant hand in the sign.
(professional standards refuse to respond to my letters regarding this matter so far)
I agree to restore the road sign and walk off 100m to put it back on with the tools.
I return and have my phone set to record again by this time, (after I have told PC 614 traffic
officer that by the look of him I would not trust him in any manner at all or employ him in any
public position of authority because he does not seem trustworthy to me. - ( he is not best
pleased with this.)
Our discussion continues.
My comments: Its back on now. (illegal size road sign I had taken as evidence to take to the
police station to present as proof of enforcement at the site not being possible because of
section .85 road traffic act)
PC Officer 614 West Yorkshire police directed me to put an illegal road sign back in place on
a road, which by law is classed as an obstruction.
My comments: But now you've just directed me to put in place an illegal sized road sign.
PC 614: Eh?
My comments: You've just directed me to install an illegal sized road sign.
PC 614: Why are you being so awkward?
My comments: I have to go by the Law.
PC 614: You have to go by the Law, yes. but what you dont need to do... Listen to me.
What you dont need to do is take things down that dont belong to you.
My comments: You are supposed to take them all down, now. (illegal signs)
PC 614: All we've done is to make you put it back.
My comments: Now i've made you aware by that document there that all these are illegal and
should be taken down right away. (legal obligations for signs that I showed to the community
support officers earlier) So your duty....
PC 614: Which documents?
(We walk to my vehicle so I can get the Documentation out that I brought with me to take in to
the police station with the sign I wanted to get as evidence (previous photos with ruler ignored)
I had gone through this with the community support officers who were clueless and doubted
my documents were "up to date".
My comments: You need to take all those 300mm ones down now and hand them into the
council (I meant to say prosecute the council) and tell them they have illegal signs.
I have taken it down to hand it in to the police because of the crime.
PC 614: Its not a crime.
My comments: The possible consequences of erecting or permitting the erection of
obstructions... (traffic signs manual chapter 1 1.18
PC 614: Wheres this from?
My comments: The Traffic signs Manual. Erm... The use of non prescribed signs which
those are, which have not been authorised is illegal
PC 614: How do you know they havent been authorized? How do you know the council hasnt
authorized them?
My comments: I know who authorized them. Sir Norman Bettison authorized them. In
consultation with Wakefield Council, It says right there. After consultation with the Chief police
officer in 2000. And the reason they are smaller is because they are not visible at the right
distance. So it takes you longer to get nearer so they are visible, and I have reason to
believe...
PC 614: Do you see this road up here? theres a 50mph sign isn't there? Theres a 50mpg
sign, and then there are repeaters.
My comments: If you miss the first ones they are to guide you.
PC 614: The really big ones, are you saying if you miss those.. .
My comments: Theres terminal signs missing tho isnt there?
PC 614: Thats driving without due care an attention tho .. if you dont see the signs that have
got the speed limit on...
My comments: Your just bluffing now, arent you?
PC 614: Im not bluffing, your being awkward...
My comments: im not being awkward. If your not doing your job as the police... The Law is
the Law. You enforce the Law...
PC 614: Thats right
My comments: I abide by it.
PC 614: How are you going to take them in to the police station then?
My comments: Im on my way to the police station at Laudanum Road, professional
standards.
PC 614: You dont need to take it down. You dont know it hasnt been authorized
My comments: I have reason to believe that i can take this sign down. When prescribed
traffic signs are used illegally action should be taken to secure their removal. Theres no who
can's on this. So it should be taken down.
PC 614: Its doesnt say you can though, does it?
My comments: Im trying to hand it in to the police, thats why i am here. As evidence. Ive
already reported the signs.
PC 614: Cant you just take a photograph with a measure in?
My comments: The central process unit in Bradford dont want to acknowledge the illegal
situation of this road.
PC 614: Its not their department though is it? Its general. They deal with the offences,
My comments: Fair enough...
PC 614: But the signage
My comments: Ive reported this to the Police..
PC 614: This has got nothing to do with the police
My comments: You can put a sign up if you want. You've got powers to take up and remove
signs. As a police officer.
PC 614: Right, Your talking about these specific signs?
My comments: But you dont want to take these illegal ones down.
PC 614: You mean specific signs
My comments: Any road signs.
PC 614: We're stood here today, right. So were not talking about me putting up signs at
the site of an accident, at the scene of an accident...
My comments: It does if there are some illegal signs that need taking down.
PC 614: it doesnt, it doesnt. Its a Local raffic order. Which has been put there by the local
council and police department. So..
My comments: Putting them up is not within the powers of the council (illegal size)
PC 614: Because were entitled to enforce it arent we? They put the order in, and we
enforce it.
My comments: Theres only certain things you can do with a traffic regulation order.
PC 614: Who's your contact at the council then?
My comments: Errmmm... (trying to remember) Galina Smithson (I say Joanne Smithson)
PC 614: Who's she?
My comments: She works at the council, complaints. Galina Smithson, do you want to write
her name down then?
PC 614: nah... (unconcerned)
My comments: She's onto the highway department now.
PC 614: Havent you complained to the highway department then?
My comments: They've ignored it, they've ignored it twice. Im excercising my civil rights.
PC 614: Why are you so bothered about the speeding signs on here?
My comments: Well its not just on here its the whole country. Its the whole country.
PC 614: Right, how can it be the whole country?
My comments: Are you acknowledging the 300mm 50 signs are not in the traffic signs
manual?
PC 614: I havent read the traffic signs manual.
My comments: Well, im telling you there are illegal signs in place, so that doesnt concern you
at all?
PC 614: You dont know the size of the signs anyway do you?
My comments: The visibility distances arent correct are they?
PC 614: Do you know that its 50mph on here? (rep)
My comments: The traffic regulation order on here.. is not effective, they arent for changing
the speed limit. They are for if a vehicle can or cant use it. or parking regulations. They have
been used improperly... since, since 1984 when they put one on the A56/M66 in Lancashier..
Chief Finnegan...
PC 614: Did you get a ticket on that one as well?
My comments: Somebody put me there to make sure I did.
PC 614: Have you had a ticket on here before?
My comments: Ive had a few producers.... before 2000 before they changed it to 50.
PC 614: Have you had a ticket on here for speeding?
My comments: have I had a ticket? yeah.
PC 614: Well I suggest, what you do is, you get intouch with Smithson
My comments: I have been intouch with her.
PC 614: Get intouch with her, dont remove stuff that doesnt belong to you. Because although
that does say something about removal, it doesnt give you permission for removal.
My comments: Your not going to remove them then?
PC 614: Im not going to remove them, no. Ok.
My comments: Do you know the sizes?
PC 614: No I dont know that.
My comments: It says here in table 14-4 (i show the road traffic officer the road signs size
chart) Minimum size and distance of repeater signs. A 50 sign should be visible at 50 meters.
PC 614: You can see those at 50 meters (refering to the 300mm 50 signs) course you can.
My comments: I dont think you can. You can see those at 50 meters clearly? So if I got an
eye chart out you could read all the numbers off at 50 meters for all the sizes?
PC 614: I would be able to tell you what the repeaters were at 50 meters yes. alright.
My comments: So you want me to take it up with the council then?
PC 614: Yes course I do, yes. its highways department and the Council who put the traffic
order in place.
My comments: They have ignored me twice. I have been doing, but they have been ignoring
me. they know if they ignore me they wont get done for it.
PC 614: Unfortunately, I cant do anything about that.
But what you have to consider is, What there might be, is alterations to that (traffic signs
manual)
My comments: I dont think there is because ive checked. Arent you going to do anything
about it?
PC 614: Well there might be. What you need to do is speak to the people who enforce it and
put them in place. You might find that Wakefield council have stipulated the signs need to be
this size. 30cm or 300mm or whatever..
My comments: Do you want me to be honest with you? Ive got a feeling that they know that
arent right. They have been made smaller so people cant see them. The very fact that they
exist is a sign that they are misleading people.
PC 614: According to you...
My comments: Well ive only got my information from the information so....
PC 614: Well what you might find is there might be other information out there..
My comments: You should know these off by heart. Are you a traffic officer? How can you
enforce the law when you dont know the law?
PC 614: Good question.
My comments: Right Ok, ill take it up with the council then.
PC 614: Be careful when you set off.
My comments: Well usually the speed camera thing is blocking this entrance so its even more
dangerous when you are parked here. bye
And another audio of Illegal road signs taken into the police station at Huddersfield to try & get the council investigated.
AUDIO LINK>
www.bentcop.biz/Huddersfieldpolicestation.mp317 & 18 September 2014
I collect 2 illegal road signs from the A644 by the corn mill, Mirfield that are 300mm instead of
450mm and that were not visible as covered with dense foilage and dirty also. I record the
manufacturer details and record this. The Next day I attempt to hand them in at Huddersfield
police station as evidence that incorrect road signs have been in place that could leave the
council liable to prosecution id any accidents or speeding tickets have occured or been given
on the road. I have suspicion that Sir Norman Bettison may have consulted over the sign
placement as to be less visible on a 50mph road that was previously national speed limit.
The signs by law should be removed and replaced with 450mm signs which has been done on
the m62 junction 25 roundabout (possibly after an accident) but not on the A644 along by
cooper bridge and the corn mill.
Their placement is actually illegal and the council operate beyond their powers putting them
up. So there is a right for requesting an police investigation because of the fact not only we
need to know who commissioned the signs but we need an investigation if any speeding
tickets have been given against section .85 of the road traffic act, or if an accident I witnessed
a year or so ago was before or after the 300mm signs on the roundabout were replaced with
450mm ones, and we need the accident and conviction history of the road.
It is possible for staff of the council to because placing the signs is illegal and they are classed
as an obstruction in the road.
I take the signs in and put them on the desk at reception and try get the police officer to record
and log the placement of illegal signs.
He goes off then comes back and says I have to take it up with the council
I assure him I have legal documents and on inspection the matter is indeed with the police.
He goes off again. By this time I have just remembered I need to set my phone to record.
The recording is not very clear but you can make out some of what is being said. I have
transcripted as best I can some of what was said but you can get the idea from this that
anything that will prove the council or police themselves are at fault is off limits and they
refuse to acknowledge it.
So I left the signs there on the desk, along with the documentation, my details and what we
the civil people want investigating any why.
Here is some of the conversation....when I start speaking louder...
Police officer. What you've got to do is take it up with the council.
Me. Right, do you see that sign there? (points to a poster on the wall, with a comment on it
that all crime should be reported no matter how small)
Can you read that on there? what does it say? 2nd line down. All crimes should be reported.
It is my duty to report any illegal road signs. and i dont think you want to (investiate).
Police officer: it is a civil matter
Me. If the law is involved it is a legal matter and you investigate legal matters dont you?
Police officer: we dont want to take it up.Me. you dont want to take it up?
Police officer.
noMe. You dont want to take up this case? for what reason?
Police officer.
Well, we dont really need a reason.Me. the reason is.. they are illegal!
Police officer.
You are supposed to go to the council because this is a civil matter. (note that they cant prosecute when the signs are not lawfull, thus is a civil matter then)
Me: who question civil matters? (who investigates crimes commited by council staff)
Police officer. Your first point of call will be the council.
Me. if the law is involved its a legal matter. and you investigate legal matters, dont you?
Police officer. its a matter with the council.
Me. even when its civil laws (in question)? So, Who, who would prosecute (investigate), if
we say the council, ok.. put these illegal road signs up, who prosecutes the council?
Police officer. I dont know
Me. so you (the police) dont prosecute the council? so, if i go to the council and ask them if
you can investigate them and they say, ok.. we will let the police prosecute (investigate) us ?
then you will?
Police officer.
were not going to take it on, its a civil matter.Me. Right, im leaving these on here (illegal road signs left on desk with all documentation and
law and evidence to have council and police investigated) im on camera, you know who I am,
If you wont prosecute the council, im going to report you to the newspapers. Alright. there they
are, there (signs left on reception desk)
alright.
i leave
Unmaintained and illegal signage.
