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Post by Administrator on Mar 7, 2016 22:44:31 GMT
Right..... here is the exact same comparison positions with the RED traffic light in the background from DONCASTER, to put next to the MACCLESFIELD POLICE IMAGES.. which (No *NOT SHOW THE REST OF THE EVENT* with intent not to include anything which may show you are innocent) This example is purely to show what evidence the police has and what that evidence looks like from the Doncaster example, and then compare it to the entire event video.... as real full evidence. And then just think why they do not want to give you the speeding videos and only send photos, unless you really badger them tro get them (and i have never ever even had the Ossett video) And claim the poice set me up as a test or stupid exemple to everyone by using legal abuse against me.   The road at Doncaster approaching the traffic lights is a 50mph road and the Sat nav has my approach speed as 34mph. The other vehicles in front did NOT stop or slow down through the traffic lights, so their speed has to be well over 30mph and it is not 27mph. Yet the other van covers the exact same distance as my Macclesfield photos in 0.6/0.7 sec from photo one to photo 2. And if my Macclesfield photo had been 5 to 8mph higher then you would certainly notice a huge difference between the 2 examples between the times. Thus I claim the traffipax camera time and speed are a loada crap. And the device is bent. I think the light was amber before the van crossed the line and it went to red moments afterwards and that the speed reading and the timer and the radAr detection area on the van itself are completely wrong and do not correspond with the actual events, which happened. The likely facts are that it did happen exactly like the van in the Doncaster example and that I was within the Lawful distance at Amber to treat the lights as red, and I was thus travelling faster and was closer to the lights when they went to Amber so that the right thing to do was carry on which I did. And the time into red is of no significance because what matters is that by law... No measurement matters in Law. Only that you were somewhere generally in approximately 23 meters or SO and at somewhere around about 30mph speed-ish, and this is obvious with the evidence photo that proves this because you cannot be very far away from the lights in 0.7 seconds and it is roughly around the amber time abouts... Give or take for error... Like with the Dorset 1second time, which will give plenty room for the few mpg, meters and speed precision arguments so that there would be no need for arguments. __________________________________ Here i am complaining again, including the new evidence to get them to withdraw the court case and prosecution. Same complaint to the CPS Cheshire Liverpool and Cheshire police Chief.. again.. but now with the added evidence to review.. Requests to withdraw the charges. Note that by complete (non)co-incidence it is the same CPS department & people who currently are featuring in a BBC television programme... You can see the details and links in the thread here... LINK> bentcop.boards.net/thread/107/television-programmes-inspured-campaign |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 8, 2016 17:34:55 GMT
THE OFFICIAL POLICE TAUGHT HIGHWAY CODE STOPPING DISTANCES - SPEED AWARENESS COURSE, DVLA, DRIVER ALERTNESS COURSES. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT.Ok just going to try get the vehicle speed from Doncaster.. but for now we are focusing back on the Silk Road Macclesfield traffic lights again.... So.. now we have established what is going on at the traffic lights in more detail, and the LAW... we need to know what is the official and acknowledged distances for stopping that are UK accepted figures.. Or at least to start with, then we can compare to our own calculations for each different unique vehicle. But for now.. what we are taught by the Department of Transport driving Schools and by the Police speed awareness courses.. are the starting figures...   So for a 30mph zone at around 30mph it is telling us the official stopping distance is 23 meters. So for the Macclesfield Silk Road camera i will measure this with google maps. And this will be the starting guide for working out a official distance that will be acceptable in LAW without needing much more other measurements or variations for a GOOD place that it is acceptable to Carry on driving from towards the traffic lights at the time they turn to AMBER. And as you can see here.. 23 Meters is well before the speed camera installation itself! just about where the tip of the two arrows are painted on the ground! And these figures and distances are actually TAUGHT to you BY THE POLICE THEMSELVES WHO SEND YOU ON A SPEED AWARENESS COURSE, AND WHOM MAGISTRATES THEMSELVES ARE PART OF THE ROAD SAFETY PARTNERSHIP WHO ORGANISE THESE EDUCATION COURSES! So the Magistrates and Police are sending you on a course, to learn how far you can carry on through a set of traffic lights from on approach, and then even if you are within that, by obvious calculation.. still making you go to a court again a next time. Do they actually want you to be back in court again?!   Anyway.... Now we just need to get the 27mph distance back from the Macclesfield traffic lights... and see if the Van will be within that 23 Meters in the Amber phase. If the Van is WITHIN 23 Meters still... It was Lawfull to carry on... If it is not, then it may have not been... But if it is very CLOSE... we can still do some more tests and experiments to see if the Stopping distances for a VAN should be different than those given by the Official Highway Code taught by Instructors and Policemen. In regards to the Distance measurement photograph ... You may also have seen the other measurements i did of the actual fixed traffipax camera installation distances from the STOP LINE. And they were ALL COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DISTANCES! so this could add to confusion if you try guess the stopping distance from where the camera is placed!
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Post by Administrator on Mar 8, 2016 22:07:21 GMT
I guess this will be the final experiment.....  Unless the police are going to say that a long wheel base van, or lorry has a longer stopping distance than a car, and the Highway code police taught course guidelines.... in which case they would grace you an extra few meters.... but as they are not like Dorset police with the 1 second prosecution threshold.. it seems Cheshire police are being particularly difficult. I just thenk they get pleasure and enjoyment out of beating you and winning, like the Chief badge. Also i have only just found these details.. i have been writing the CPS and Cheshire professional standards, Chief and Ticket office... Apparently I need to write to this guy.. charge authorized byCourt Presentation Officer prosecution contact detailsDepartment of criminal justice Cheshire constabulary HQ, Clemonds Hey, Oakmere Road, Winsford, Cheshire, CW7 2UA So i need to write to this guy to get the charges withdrawn? Anyway.... what do you think? do you think i will still be within the 23 meters area at 27mph from the traffic lights? it looks longer than 3 van lengths to me.. but who knows?! what is the best stopwatch to use?! And you can put your money on this..... IF the VAN IS within the 23 Meters range within 3 seconds time of the lights.... And the Police do not withdraw the prosecution charges against me... I am going to Sue the police for CAUSING A DRIVER TO CONTRAVENE A TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDER BY SENDING ME TO A SPEED AWARENESS COURSE THAT THEY RUN AND BEING TAUGHT THE STOPPING DISTANCES BY THE POLICE APPROVED TRAINING INSTRUCTORS. And you can be assured I will have Simon Byrnes testicles hanging from that red light camera. Because I have had enough of this bullshit police pranks on the public with these stupid machines.  I wonder if the Court presentation officer is the same guy who is in the First BBC episode of the Crown prosecution programme?  |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 8, 2016 23:35:00 GMT
The speed driving towards the Macclesfield traffic lights is 24mph according to the sat tracking.. so it possible it could have been LESS than the 27mph radar speed.. and as there is no markings to measure on the ground.. its a shame i dont have a recording of the actual speedometer at the time.   |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 9, 2016 2:09:28 GMT
At doncaster my speed was apparently about 30 odd mile per hour on approach so the stopping distance would have been 36 meters
But as its a 50mph road 53 meters would be the acceptable stopping distance.
The thing is that the Amber times are the same on all traffic lights.... and you are going to be covering more distance in a shorter time, so the decision and reaction times are different for different roads!
The problem with the Macclesfield lights is that its only 30mph, but its a narrow long channel of a road that is drawn out, then opens up into two lanes as an outlet... all set up to draw you towards it. Its either got cars stopped or its clear but ready to change to re. After you have gone all the way upto it...
The strange thing is that i am certain i was in the right hand lane when i drove through because i always take those lights in the right hand lane. Thats why i would like to see the CCTV video of the event from Cheshire East council... just in case someone got a navy blue van and put the same reg number on!?
Anyway... i dont see how you are supposed to react immediately if the lights go amber at 23 meters because how are you supposed to know 23 meters exactly anyway!? Can you guess 23 meters? That is why the set up should really have a traffic light warning sign at 23 meters and then you know the closest acceptable carrying on decision point when it goes amber.... as otherwise... 23 meters is as good as anything upto 36 meters really... because how about the speed signs? The police are saying they dont have to have the exact size signs up, and can use 300mm, 450 or 600mm all having different visibility distances yet the driver is supposed to guess the exact 23 meters distance at the traffic lights and not the distance for the next up or down..... but they are supposed to be led and directed by 300mm illegal national speed limir signs..
These men are a bunch of tossers.
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Post by Administrator on Mar 9, 2016 16:56:09 GMT
I dropped the LG today outside while trying to get a photo of a long bendy bus in Cheetham hill. It just slipped out of my hand while running up the pavement. It still works but the screen is cracked now in the corner. Dam. But i am due a new phone anyway, and it never was used as a phone because it had no credit or phone connection. I am due a new phone anyway for free.....
Anyway...
I have been timing lamp post distances at 27mph... they are various distances they set them at.... but there is a few about the 3 second distances..... and also one of the lorrys at work is 11.5meters, and double that and you get exactly 23meters! And i am quite certain that is about the 3 second distance driving at 27 mph in the van, because. I have timed it consistently with the lamposts.... so i just need to film the proper experiment now for evidence ...
On google maps the distance is easy 2 lorrys long. So if the 3 seconds fits into it at. 27 mph then i am in the Highway code police speed speed awareness course taught stopping distance to validate the Law to treat Amber as green and drive on! And that is what you are supposed to do!
The only thing is that the police and courts have pretty much ignored all other complaints and even the fact it is illegal to be prosecuted for putting up printed political materials... And they changed the Alan White charges from a Fray, to Assault then instead to intent to cause distress ..when I am without question saying "the council have said to leave the notices alone" so how You figure 3 different charges from that... Is a mystery when I never touched him and he said that I didn't! ... So it seems the police just "run through any charges they want" with any evidence they want no matter what it is, a prosecution guy reads out a loada crap from a piece of paper and regardless of if you are there or not... They find you guilty. Unless you have paid freeman 4Grand and have a emotional trauma in court and they you might be lucky to get special reasons.
Beats me.
No wonder why the police enjoy the job.
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Post by Administrator on Mar 9, 2016 17:42:21 GMT
Here, I just typed "Speed awareness course" into google search from my phone and this is what the top search result said....  West Yorkshire police in the top search result for Speed Awareness Course?! |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 10, 2016 8:23:49 GMT
09 March
Measuring Macclesfield, Discussion with local passer by
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Post by Administrator on Mar 10, 2016 10:23:40 GMT
Ok, so I should have worked out these calculations that are obvious now earlier...
But I guess I have been looking at the legislation aspects and law first....
Anyway...
So, at the PER 3 second calculations
27mph is 36.2 meters per 3 seconds
And
30mph is 40.2 meters per 3 seconds
So I was covering 4 meters less distance per 3 seconds of Amer time.
That is a car length less (approx 3.5m)
AND the van is approx 7 metres long...
So I have ANOTHER 3.5 meters extra length of vehicle behind left in the radar zone after the front of the van has crossed the line....
So the factors of.... 3mph slower than the roads speed and 3.5m extra length was the effect that resulted in the camera being triggered.
But I was at a acceptable distance by law to continue through the traffic lights when the amber light came on...
Plus you need decision making time and that was limited by the 3mph less and extra vehicle length.
Also I was watching the lights so how would I know exactly it was 27 and not 30mph. Plus as all traffic light cameras are a different distance from the stop line, I wouldnt know the exact radar allowance at this set of lights and there is no bike lane section like other traffic lights.
This calculation is correct...
And I do not believe there is a case against me for running a red light or failure to obey a traffic signal.
The calibration is not suitable for this type of vehicle and the Police should know that.
Also I still maintain that the front of the vehicle was at least at or over the stop line before the red signal was displayed.
If you take the 3.5 meters from the rear of the van, and add 3mph speed into the distance - 4 meters... The camera would not have been triggered, and my distance WAS acceptable at Amber to continue through and treat amber as Green
The police teach you to drive slower and not at 30mph everywhere. Yet when you drive a little slower they still want to punnish you!
Stupid devices.
The Dorset police 1second threshold is really a 1second Amber allowance that carrys over.
It's extra time for amber decision making and approach speed error exactly like my 0.7 seconds... Which is the approach distance covered...
It is sensible. And human rights states we must be treated equally in law. And if Magistrates are members of the Road safety partnerships I don't believe the cases can be considered fair or unbiased at all. Because the Magistrates have an incentive to keep the cameras and schemes running. And the more cases they process. The bigger the pile of historical cases and automatic endorsement convictions the police have behind them.
Also in respect to my own traffic light case, the 27mph speed 3mph less than the road speed limit of 30mph contributed MORE to the event than the length of the vehicle alone...
As the van is only about 3.5 meters longer than a car, but the extra distance I lost by going 27mph not 30mph was 4meters not 3.5meters....
So and extra 1/2 (0.5) meter would have been gained by 30mph over the amber phase, than the 3.5meter that was lost by vehicle length of being 7meters long.
We really need the technical details of that traffipax camera set up, a bit like the death star plans were obtained by the rebels in star wars! Because we need to know the radAr detection trigger zone and the responce delays... As the traffic light timing is allowed error margins, but what about the traffipax operating precision and where even are the road markings to calculate the speed is correctly calibrated anyway like other traffipax cameras! Plus the 2 lanes cannot have the same speed line, ad I have posted photos of other traffipax cameras with 2 lanes and the speed lines are in different places!
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Post by Administrator on Mar 10, 2016 17:31:35 GMT
There are some things that we need to get clear here....
These are the intents and actions of the creators of these devices, those of the police, council and government testers of the devices and the local council and highways authorities.
These are... That the device is with intent created to exclude a great deal of information and evidence from the events that happened which are measured and recorded by them.
Would you want to exclude, omitt or hide important details or information about an accident? Or crash? Or want as much information as possible?
The next is that the device completely focuses on the stopping line and the light being red.
Where as the legislation is as much concerned with the amber light as it is with the red light. The red light camera removes all evidence of amber phase information other than any distances that can only be worked out from the given speed and distance covered between the 2 photos that the device presents you with.
The law states no specific distances or measurements.only that if you think you are too close to stop in time you treat amber as if it were green. Also roadworks units put up signs saying when red shows, wait at the line.
Also the radAr detection area for the device is not shown to us. We are given no distance guide of where is the distance to brake from if amber shows, so we only have the highway code to go by...
Also no variable is given for each vehicle type or length, size or brake adequacy, ABS or no ABS..
And the device manufacturer seems only to want to show you crossed the line and the light was red at the moment and you continued onwards.
Also they want to give a speed to show with the photos to shoe that according to that speed the light was Red before the vehicle started over the line, because if it was not, then you did not run a red light. But their angle on this is that amber was before and that you should have stopped. Also they want to show that you were outside a reasonable 23 meters only by calculating hypothetical maths from the approximate photo position.
But the place you are and the time in relation to the radAr wave area and entire vehicles of different sizes being in contact with it for different times over different distances is hidden from us, which itself gives a lot of play area to the manufacturer.
Because if the designer laid out a set of approach guides on the floor for suggested braking area for amber... Like the markings after a speed camera for speed (supposedly) then the designer would need to then give a list of clearance times for different lengths of vehicles and the same for different speeds of vehicles as well.
This would be a lot safer.
But as these machines are clearly designed for vending fines and removing driving licences (punnishment) we can say that they are no really designed foe safety, but more as a threat or fear presence or a deterrent.
But this contradiction is also evident as not all the cameras are turned on and not all traffic lights have the cameras.
So without doubt the intent seems one of mysterious and unclear aims with the devices, in that there is a great deal not disclosed regarding their calibration and measurements and that they are designed with purpose to only collect very limited information.
And as the law regarding the traffic lights is somewhat genaral with no times or distances, then that also rasises the potential for debatable circumstances with the events recorded by the devices,
Be they postal debates in many letters, or else in person or by telephone or email.
The fact the traffic light camera has been around as long as the speed camera, also raises questions of why the road markings are as they are, why the set ups are as they are and why one type requires less road markings than the other type of camera.
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Post by Administrator on Mar 10, 2016 20:36:15 GMT
Just a little 2-sequence photo i took in Bootle the other day... i thought it would fit-to-gether as a pan shot, but the images do not match up exactly! i must have moved the camera distance or something, a bit like the Macclesfield camera shots dont match up for a perfect fit?!  Heres a table i am working on to show how your approach speed will effect if you have time to get across the line in 3 seconds of amber from a reasonable distance and where exactly over the line it will put you.... with vehicle size and an imaginary raDar beam havent finished it yet.. it will be accurate to the times though...  |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 11, 2016 8:50:46 GMT
Another thing is the HGV and 7.5 tonne lorry and Class 2 lorrys.
The Driver at work said no unique or different traffic light lessons or stopping rules are taught in the class 2 lessons or driving test. No stopping distances for loaded and unloaded or longer or shorter vehicles are given in the highway code. And these different vehicles have very different stopping distances and different types of breaks.
Plus every person has completely different thinking and reaction times. It can take anywhere from 1 to 3 seconds even for evaluating exactly how fast you are going and what distance you are and if you should stop or go through. Plus the width of the road effects perspectives and speed evaluation perception
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Post by Administrator on Mar 11, 2016 22:40:43 GMT
So here i have superimposed over the previous table of examples or random distances and speeds... the actual fixed 3 second times and distances to get to the stop line/nudge the stop line within the Amber phase. And you can see that ALL of these speeds will quite easily get you OVER the stop line from distances beyond the HIGHWAY CODE ADVISED stopping distance of 23 Meters. And in the modern age with shorter stopping distances, ABS, better brakes and faster, more smoother control vehicles... the MAJORITY of people, who are not in a line of slow traffic (20mph or under) will usually if between 23 meters and 40 Meters... and going at approx 30mph with a clear road... normally just carry on, have a dabble at the lights or else if at 35mph or 34mph... probably not even think about stopping at all. Usually if you are going to stop, the Amber will have gone to, or be going to RED, in fact about when you DO cross the 23 Meter point.. between 10 Meters & 23 Meters or something like that.  Here is the Table with the DORSET POLICE 1 SECOND THRESHOLD ADDED. As you can see... for 27Mph you get a grace thinking time of 12 METERS in the 1 second... for reaction and thinking time.. so that if you end up just not making it in time... you dont get into trouble. Later on I calculate that the time in the Police photos between the images is 0.5seconds 1/2 a second... So I really only would have used up HALF of the Dorset police threshold in that time. and not required the whole 12 meters. But as you can see with the AMBER/orange areas I have marked out at the START of the DISTANCES... The times are not really a RED LIGHT allowance at all, its a REACTION TIME ALLOWANCE for the start of the AMBER that "Carries over" into RED. And Really... this image illustrates quite well... that in fact what this extra second does.... is EVEN UP the START DISTANCES.. so that IF you would have got through the lights at say.. 30mph.... but were only going at 25, 26 or 27mph but didnt realise it.. it kind of "corrects" the human error in speed... because really this is what this device set up does... Instead of a speed camera getting you for going "a few Mph too fast" on a road... This traffic light set-up gets you for going through a traffic light change sequence at your "usual" guessing distance" but if you are going a Little Slower than you normally go.. you will not quite make it through.. or if you are a tiny bit further way.. so really its a camera for getting "slow coaches" not "speeding drivers". The Dorset police time really just "evens out" the approach so that all drivers between 25/26/27/28/29mph all get the same chance as a 30mph driver from a similar distance away.  Here is the same table as before, but I was calculating my own Traffic light case into it as well, to compare... But I had forgotten to add the DECIMAL PLACES to the calculations of TIME. So instead of 6 meters over 0.5seconds that is the machines calculations... I worked out 7.3/7.2 Meters for the distance. The thing is... we are NEVER given a SPEED READING to the DECIMAL PLACE BY ANY* of the POLICE DEVICES EVER! so I am leaving these decimal errors in the table on this one.. because it shows the differance in the calculations between the 6 Meters and 7.3/7.2 Meters (1.3 WHOLE METERS!) when you get the decimal wrong... So just imagine how the SPEED READING DECIMAL wll EFFECT the measurements!? if it was 27.5mph or 27.8mph!? and as it is IMPOSSIBLE from the REALLY BAD ANGLES on the CAMERA VIEW to TRULY measure the DISTANCE in the photos (no proper markings) then... really the speed READING can throw the entire measurements off, or at least the accuracy, because TRUE POSITION in Physical space and TRUE SPEED cannot be 100% established. ONLY the TIME (claimed times) by the Device.  When triangulating the SPEED / DISTANCE/ TIME.. we are given an aparenuper accurate TIME, but very shabby distance and speed measurements, so its like having two wonky legs on a tripod, or 2 odd length legs on a tripod! so the camera will not sit level! and if the distance image and speed reading are not even truly 100% accurate, how can we even trust the speed reading?! because all you have is two photos that "kind of look about 6 meters-ish apart... And even if you go and drive past at 27mph exactly, you would need to get the positions in the exact same places as the photos even to be able to get an accurate comparison to any kind of measurement that could prove the device innacurate. But if the speed was higher, you would get a similar gap between photos, and a differnce of 1-2 meters only, but the original amber phase position would be the place in LAW that mattered.. yet all the attention & focus is on the STOP LINE. When in truth.... the COLOUR of the LIGHT when you cross the line does NOT MATTER in LAW, or the amber phase... what MATTERS IN LAW is the DISTANCE you WERE AT when AMBER CAME ON, and the SPEED over that distance and THINKING TIME AND REACTION . all which can not be measured by a machine. Supposedly by Magistrates only who have this supreme evaluation power. As the Police intellect is supposedly not of adequacy to be able to make such career and live effecting financial decisions, unless investigating accidents and other incidents of crime and motive. Did you ignore the signal? Did you attempt to pass the signal BEFORE it changed to red? Did you attempt to pass the Green signal before it changed to amber? Did you make error in judgment of a decision over an amber light as you were approaching the traffic signals? Do you regulary disobey Amber and Red traffic signals? Particularly ones with Fixed cameras on site, that are turned on? |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 11, 2016 23:20:05 GMT
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Post by Administrator on Mar 11, 2016 23:39:41 GMT
So My main arguments are over the entire thing.. the legislation and law with the Amber and the Dorset time not being fair on everyone else.. and the equipment being BENT in first place...
But if its going to come down to the measurements...
I will have to drive at 27mph, film it exactly with road markings (which the device doesnt provide) and see if this particular vehicle covers 6 or 7.3 meters in 0.5 seconds, and if possible do some still photos to match up as closely as possible to the traffipax photos.
Unless the Police are going to Withdraw on the basis of all the other arguments I have raised.
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