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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 13:03:51 GMT
This thread is about the supposed radar markings for enforcement of traffic lights that are not being put down.
But I will add now, just as a note that the STOP line is supposed to be either 30cm thick, or in brackets it says it can be 10cm (not certain under which conditions yet though)
Also the traffipax camera gives a speed reading stamp on the first photo, as well as the 2nd one, so it is presumed that the 2nd photo is not required and the unpainted 2 foot apart triple strip section is enough to get the speed reading. But that is not painted out. Thus the exact radar area of the stop line is in fact an invisible 2ft, not 30cm. And the time between photo one and photo 2 doesnt correlate exactly to the speed stamp time, as the decimal is not acccounted for, unless you do your own calculations (example 26.8mph instead of 27mph) which they do not help you with. And in fact a repeated experiment gives different photo positions to the police ones, thus disclosing the inconsistent errors in their camera systems (which are all unique installations and hidden distances of set up and calibration)
There were three types of speed camera mainly...
GATSO
TRUVELLO
and now TRAFFIPAX (and traffipax Germany)
The GATSO cameras were usually identified with the LONG AREA OF ROAD MARKINGS. Where the TRUVELLO only required three strips that were close together.
The TRAFFIPAX cameras that we find at TRAFFIC LIGHTS, only appear to operate with the WHITE STOP LINE at the lights.
YET, there are instances of THE SAME TYPE OF CAMERA, used as a SPEED CAMERA, OPERATING WITH THE THREE LINES CLOSE TOGETHER, like the TRUVELLO cameras.
We also see a host of NEWER cameras & we see newer traffic light cameras with FULL LENGTH road markings, like with the main GATSO cameras we are used to seeing.
I have posted in the main hello & welcome thread a man from MOLD, North Wales won a court case when He measured the road markings & found them to be wrong on a fixed speed camera.
LINK>
I am going to put some links on to the buisness that claim to manufacture these cameras and take a look at the road markings.
Because to measure speed (which traffic light cameras DO, you need the correct strips on the road. and if they are not in place, then the camera cannot be calibrated for SPEED detaction & if its NOT , then it is NOT SET UP CORRECTLY, and can not be reliable for any motion measurement or detection at all.
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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 14:01:52 GMT
Websites like this are extremely dubious to "Nick Croft" cheese smells, and Home Office independent testing investigation requirements. as in.. there was no real independent testing.  |
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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 16:56:02 GMT
Ive been noticing a LOT of fixed speed cameras recently that have no BRANDING identification on them. The TRUVELLO cameras were very distinguishable from the GATSO ones at one time, but now they are made to look similar. Which is further evidence that the manufacturers are trying to confuse Would-be defence cases on the technical details and set-up requirements and which cameras are which.. especially with the fact that NEWER cameras seem to have different road markings as well. This is the GATSO Fixed SPEED CAMERA (not traffic light camera)   This is the truvello camera that was noticably different from the Gatso.  Truvello speed camera. this one looks similar to gatso but i think was changed to look more like the gatso  Here is a modern "NEWER" truvello camera  Now... On THIS website it lists THIS type as "TRUVELLO" and I am certain I have seen it named so on a label in the past many times as well... LINK> www.marymonson.co.uk/useful-information/types-of-speed-cameras/ So.... I am instantly suspicious because recently less & less cameras are being given the BRAND name, and some do not even have a "number" ID number given to identify the location. So... Because This TRUVELLO camera is the SAME CAMERA TYPE THAT THEY ARE USING FOR THE FIXED TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERAS.... And because.. recently they all seem to bear the label TRAFFIPAX, or TRAFFIPAX (Germany) then I am very suspicious. Here is the fixed traffic light camera.. You see it on the mid lower RIGHT in GREY. and I dont want to annoy you for posting this picture TWICE..... But because these cameras now seem to be called TRAFFIPAX... but, traffic light cameras do NOT have the triple stripe road markings... yet the FIXED SPEED CAMERA THAT IS THE SAME TYPE DOES.. for SPEED/MOTION DETECTION... Well.. i smell something extra suspicious, of "AMATEUR POLICE COLLEGE LEVEL CHIEF EDUCATION COVER UP" like.. "do you think we are all stupid & are you insulting our intellect level Chief?" kind of thing. This website is not just TACCY, it actually aromanates "Vinegan" smell. and "Croft Cheese" ACPO Association of Chief police officers manual college crap... Just like the Tele-traffic laser speed 20/20 50/50 or what you would call it. Its basically the "speed awareness course" standard of literature. so..... I have not been around to investigate all this.. because to me it makes the word obvious seem small. Anyway... Here are some photos I took of the FIXED SPEED CAMERA ROAD MARKINGS that are from the SAME CAMERA as the TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERA, BUT SET UP FOR SPEED ONLY. close up, Ravensthorpe  Ravensthorpe again (Ravensing Mills) this covers BOTH DIRECTIONS it seems, towards & away from the camera.  Measurements.. 65cm?  And the CAMERA itself.  OK, THIS one.. SAME CAMERA TYPE.... Location FARTOWN, Near ASDA. 65cm it seems as well for this one...  But someone has had something to say or do about it, because the LINES have been CHANGED!?  RIGHT. That is it for my brief TRAFFIPAX FIXED SPEED CAMERA EXAMPLES. It is obvious that this device to measure MOTION (speed) from one position to another required some form of measurement lines on the road as part of its operating installation. And that the measurements of the three lines at the widest point is 65cm. And the device takes TWO photographs. |
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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 17:23:51 GMT
so... I thought I saw a DOWNLOADABLE technical details file on the TRAFFIPAX website, but I dont seem to be able to find it now... Anyway... I will look again.. but first.. Why do they give the Addresse... Traffic Safety Systems Ltd, Telford Road, Bicester, OX26 4LB Tel: +44 (0)870 16 17 100 Email sales@tssltd.co.uk But then in the contact form, give the addresse.. Traffic Safety Systems Limited 1200 Daresbury Park Daresbury, Warrington. WA4 4HS. ? This is just the type of "Feeling" you get when researching the "Independent test house" addresses that the Home office give, for the testing of the Tele-traffic laser speed devices... All these strange buisnesses spread about with identical Email Adresses and very tacky names like TRaK where the letters go lower case & capital as if its a sketchy attempt at a laser speed going under or OveR ThE top Of A cAR UP ANd down UP AND Down..?? I think you kind of have to have a certain perspective to agree with me on this.. its like the scene of being able to distinguish between a Well made movie and a slightly more under budget movie from less experiences producer or director.. or each either. (not that I claim to be either) Anyway... Here are the photos of the TRAFFIPAX FIXED TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERA. (Not speed camera)  Now .. Traffic light cameras DO need to use MOTION & SPEED detection... as we have seen by examples I have given of Traffic light camera road markings in Manchester... on modern cameras.. and examples where the SAME CAMERA is LACKING the required ROAD MARKINGS.... THUS I am very certain that for MOTION/SPEED detection function that IS part of ALL of these fixed traffic light camera functions it DOES REQUIRE the ROAD MARKINGS AS WELL. Because it DOES GIVE A VEHICLE SPEED, THUS for any motion to be VALID, between TWO PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BY THE DEVICE, you NEED the MEASUREMENTS. or else the SPEED READING is not VALID, thus the MOTION is not valid either.... you can not have a camera that is supposed to be CALIBRATED TO ANY PROFESSIONAL PRECISION, and "part of its functioning" has been ignored or left out... The fact is that FOR PROPER CORRECT TRAFFIC LIGHT TIMING, FOR LENGTH OF VEHICLE, HOW FAR THE VEHICLE MOVED AND AT WHAT RATE, WHEN, WHERE, WHAT POSITION AND TIME.. YOU NEED THE MARKINGS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROVIDED WITH THE DEVICE INSTALLATION FOR THAT CAMERA TYPE AND ITS FULL FUNCTIONALITY. So.... here are the WHITE LINE, Road markings at Various Traffic lights where there is a FIXED TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERA. Huddersfield Ring Road opposite Bus Station..    Huddersfield Ring Road outside Community service building   ASPLEY WHARFE MARINA Huddersfield (where there was a police unit awaiting when I turned up to take photos (Car & Van) Plus the dreadlock guy walked past at the same time who i mentioned as well.     As you can see... there is no standard width of stopping line at traffic lights and the lines are nowhere near as wide as the triple lines used for the TRAFFIPAX type Fixed SPEED CAMERAS. So.. what I am asking is.. HOW CAN THE SPEED BE VALID IN THE DISPLAY ON A FIXRD TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERA? if there are no speed measurement lines? because the SPEED is related to the TIME. And the TIME AFTER RED that you are supposed to be still moving at? HOW FAR? HOW FAST? The device CLEARLY BY FACT does take TWO photographs, and works by the SAME methods as other speed cameras. So WHY? are some of these having the ROAD MARKINGS SET OUT, like the Manchester Example.. yet NOT with these ones? Forgive me if I am wrong on this.... But I am quite certain I am correct. |
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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 17:25:40 GMT
Another TRUVELLO Fixed speed camera, with road markings...   |
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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 17:32:49 GMT
Also.... OUTSIDE DEWSBURY POLICE STATION.. are TWO FIXED TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERAS.Why is it that when you drive towards RAVENSTHORPE, past the POLICE Station... THERE IS NO TRAFFIC LIGHT WARNING SIGN IN PLACE ON THE ROAD. Yet.... when you DRIVE FROM RAVENSTHORPE towards DEWSBURY, there IS the TRAFFIC LIGHT WARNING SIGN IN PLACE, BEFORE THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS!  These cameras both had petitions on them as well. & one camera is hidden from view completely in a bush! Outside DEWSBURY POLICE STATION NO TRAFFIC LIGHT WARNING SIGN Dewsbury... opposite direction.. TRAFFIC LIGHT WARNING SIGN IS IN PLACE . |
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Post by Administrator on Jan 10, 2016 19:03:44 GMT
Cars driving over lines examples
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Post by Administrator on Jan 14, 2016 0:33:27 GMT
Two same traffipax fixed speed camera types? Yet completely different road markings? Then none for the Traffic light set up? This machine uses Traffipax settings for speed measurement even at traffic lights.. so why does one have GATSO road markings?  |
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Post by Administrator on Feb 22, 2016 20:42:17 GMT
So, i was going to put this in the Macclesfield thread.. but i havent put as much in here, so i will add these here. I few examples of multi lane fixed cameras where the measurement markings are all starting at different distances. *including the traffipax camera that is of the same type used at Macclesfield Mill Lane/Silk road. which is three lanes wide.. then down to two... and i question the ability of the camera there to give correct accurate speed measurement from one single line across the road.     i obviously need to read the installation manual for the traffipax... but every single traffic light camera has completely different distance set up, so its very difficult to know the radar areas exactly, taking into account that its difficult enough to get the simple laser video from them, or CCTV from Cheshire East council, let alone the installation data for every traffic light camera to compare set ups. |
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Post by Administrator on Feb 26, 2016 21:17:02 GMT
Different design of signs.. one has white circles around the colours   The stop sign tells you where to stop. this would eliminate any confusion with cycle areas.  |
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Post by Administrator on Mar 2, 2016 22:30:13 GMT
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Post by Administrator on Apr 25, 2016 16:05:05 GMT
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Post by Administrator on May 25, 2016 16:36:37 GMT
So, I really haven't done enough research into Gatsometer traffic light cameras. But here on the Dorset police website it says that they use Gatsometer traffic light cameras and that they are on inductive loops! www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=7869I saw some more traffic light cameras in Nottingham the other day with road measurement markings for fixed traffic light cameras. Which is more evidence that they really should have them. Both radar And inductive loop cameras, for speed verification. Because the speed the vehicle is going needs to be verified. This counts for traffic light cameras as much as speed cameras (most are in fact both) Because you need to be able to work out hoe far the vehicle was from the stop line at amber for stopping distance and speed. Thus it needs to be checked. The inductive loops can be in timing error because the vehicle might not have driven onto them straight, or the height of the vehicle and its distance from the ground and metal mass will react at different timing for triggering the system. That is why the time and distance positions in both photographs need to be able to be measured with the road markings. As the traffic light cameras use the same type of systems, they all should have the road markings in place. |
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Post by Administrator on May 25, 2016 22:40:48 GMT
25th May 2016 So, I drove through Nottingham the other day & spotted some more Traffic light cameras with Road measurement markings for speed verification purposes to help calculate the Amber position of the vehicle for stopping distance in Law. And these look to have inductive loop markings on the road as well!! so Inductive loop cameras SHOULD have markings on the road to measure! And the reason is because different HEIGHT & MASS vehicles have slightly different reaction times when driving over the top of the magnetic inductive loop field! Here are some photos! can you believe that the road is Called "COLWICK LOOP ROAD!" is it a joke?!  2 fixed Gatso inductive loop cameras! (various google mapd angles and on one image you see by chance odds a van next to a lorry for height compare!  chances?!        Also just past the Traffic light cameras... two national speed limit terminal signs the opposite ways mirrored..  And ANOTHER camera with road markings before some traffic lights but NOT a red light camera! just a regular speed camera made to appear similar position to a traffic light set but just before, on route to the real traffic light cameras! I hope its not to mislead them to think those are only speed cameras as well?!  Here , see that at Macclesfield they have already had at least one chance to change the road markings & layout but they didnt want to put the measurement lines down did they?! nope.  Changes to road  They have to be ruthless. Says Simon Byrne. The problem is that Traffipax cameras have a triple strip for measurement purposes. well... except in Todmorden where they have traffipax cameras with Gatsometer markings! so obviously you can use them together. Unless Simon Byrne says otherwise?  Simon Says? |
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Post by Administrator on May 29, 2016 13:19:51 GMT
Ok so its about time I added some legislation in here... Link> www.bsga.co.uk/tag/road-traffic-signs/They definitely have to be the correct colour. Also road markings are classified as a sign, thus the road markings such as the stop line at a set of traffic lights has to be the correct size, width and specifications as well... So the Macclesfield traffic light stop line in incorrect according to the 2002 manual which the use of light and sound device regulations refers to for the evidence to be submissible by the police. So Cheshire Constabulary cannot prosecute me for the traffic light offence at Mill lane silk road. |
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These cameras both had petitions on them as well. & one camera is hidden from view completely in a bush!
chances?!
Simon Says?