MACCLESFIELD Silk Road/Mill Lane fixed RED LIGHT CAMERA.

Right... I am NOt a maths person. But I am trying my best with this ok.. so if its wrong then, I am shit.

But I am pretty certain I am correct so far...

Here is where I am with this today..

LAW: There is no SET LEGAL distance where you can or cannot continue through an amber light from. The Only figures we have are the highway code 23 Meters for a 30mph area, and that is for a really OLD 1960's Chitty Chitty bang bang car. I am not certain if its the emergency stop distance or not. I will have to check. If it is, then the AMBER THINKING TIME will be a LOT MORE, because its not an EMERGENCY, its just an Amber traffic light & You will need time to evaluate your speed and position of what to do = (Dorset 1 second)

Also, you can not go putting these road signs up everywhere... and expect everyone to STOP as soon as they see an amber light. Because it says WAIT ONLY ON RED. So thats mis-information.




Now regarding the Traffipax cameras themselves. Here is a Traffipax Camera in Todmorden. Why does it have Gatsometer Road Measurement Markings laid down?! huh? its a completely different set up and calibration supposedly. (Photos & video today 12 March)




video



Also.... I havea lot to say about the PHOTO. A PHOTO is a 2 Dimensional record. It can never be 3D. There is NO 3D information recorded in it. It is IMPOSSIBLE to obtain any accurent 3D measurement from the photograph. And the Photo is supposed to validate and give evidence to support & prove the Radar reading. But a 2D image or Images Cannot do this.

You can use geometry and measurement to do shape mapping and percentage of size reduction of the vehicle and use that with the Speed Reading & Time to work out approximately how much the Vehicle will SHRINK in size at a distance of an extra 6 meters from the camera... Or say.. the Width of the BRAKE LIGHTS (Which I see ARE on in these photos from Macclesfield it appears) and the percentage the width of the Brake light spacing shrinks can be calculated to an approximate distance...

BUT the police are using 2 decimal places for the TIME. Pretty accurate (but not with a no decimal speed) - anyway..
The problem is that the CAMERA HAS MOVED! from Photo 1 to Photo 2 So its not in the exact same position and ALSO the VAN is not at the EXACT SAME ANGLE to the camera in photo 1 to photo 2 because the junction is on a BEND, so the shift in angle will effect the perception of the brake light spacing as well...



So you CAN work it out with Geometry and shape re-sizing... but also they only send you a crappy print out... NOT THE ORIGINAL FULL RESOLUTION IMAGES (Like what you see them enlarging to get the Reg number on the police computer) So you will need to REQUEST THESE and lucky if they even turn up at all. (I am going to make request for the originals) And if anyone IS going to defend themselves, the police certainly are not helping by sending out crappy photo prints, because the OTHER way... to work out position... Just by the STOP LINE is pretty useless here as well...

EVEN IF the Stop line had the Traffipax tripple strips painted on the ground and you could line them up to a certain section or referance point down the side of the vehicle.... This is STUPID!

Because in the 2nd photo... the Vehicle is NOT EVEN OVER that line anymore?! so what the hell do they expect you to measure the 6 meters out with to the nearest 20cm?! taking into consideration the triple strip (NOT USED AT MACCLESFIELD) DOESNT EVEN HAVE CM ON IT!

Also... if they are NOT giving a speed to a DECIMAL PLACE... and if the PHOTO is pretty useless for any 3D position, only a reduced 2D image.. with NO MEASUREMENT MARKS for photo 2.... And the police do NOT supply the FULL RESOLUTION IMAGES that any sane person of DEFENCE would NATURALLY REQUIRE FOR ANY TRUE DEFENCE AT ALL .. and to see clearly the image...

Why should the police even be trusted for the TIME calibration at all?! seeing as PC Farley likes to lie about his Tyre Measurements and Both Halsead & Callaghan both produce speed readings 3mph higher than sdatellite tracking CONSISTENTLY?!

Also what about this type of radar reading?! whats to say the traffipax doesnt do this often?!



Why WOULDNT the POLICE and CPS (supposedly really nice Television programme appearing good folk on the BBC currently) WANT TO AND BE MAKING EFFORT FOR YOU TO HAVE THE FULL RESOLUTION PHOTOS WITHIN MANY WEEKS OF THE COURT CASE?! why do they just "not bother" ? is this any other sign of neglect and lack of care other than "THEY WANT TO NAIL YOU AND YOU NOT TO WIN" Say bye bye to the code of practice, was there ever one anyway?

Also where are the technical plans and measurements of the device installation? the radar area mapping, reaction tolerance times and other technical information? One police website opted to disclose this type on information, but all the web links did not work!

The police just want the magistrates to bang the hammer down so they can keep going and doing what they are doing...to validate it.

What I want to know is... If a magistrate bangs the hammer down and says a speed awareness course thinking and stopping times chart is invalid... Then does that mean the police will be banned from offering fraudulent speed awareness courses to drivers?

Ok...

Anyway.. So here is where I am with this "JUST LOOK AT THE PICTURE AND USE VISUAL GUESSING OR TWO DIMENSIONAL ESTIMATION OR MEASURE ON A FLAT PAPER OF A REDUCED 3D PLANE...

Well, i gave a quick "truncated example"



Here.. is a better example.... Near objects are in 2D DIFFERENT SCALES at different distances on paper. So... you NEED THE CORRECT DISTANCE to work out WHAT PERCENTAGE EXACTLY THE IMAGE MAPPING IS REDUCED AT THE DISTANCE IN THE PHOTO...

Now here.... I can measure the road width in person.... and then use that to correlate with the SIZE CHANGE on paper between the NEAR TAPE MEASURE and the FAR AWAY TAPE MEASURE in the photos below... In real life its the SAME SIZE, but in 2D it is re-scaled





But.. with the ALLEDGED 6 Meters of the Van from photo 1 to photo 2 in the Macclesfield photos... we are ONLY "calculating" the distance from the Given Speed and TIME! But THAt IS WHAT WE ARE WANTING TO prove! SO WE CAN check THE distance is correct! BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW IT FOR CERTAIN, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE ARE WANTING TO VERIFY! bUT ITS impossible TO VERIFY WITH A speed reading with no decimal place!

And because the vehicle in Police photo 2 has NO road mark at all, and photo 1 only has the stop line, which is not even clear on the crappy print out they send.... EVEN IF the first distance can be 99% guessed.. the 2nd photo position CAN NOT BE 100% verified even from a high resolution photograph. Because the SIZE of the vehicle has CHANGED in scale and how MUCH is exactly what we need to know, but we need the DISTANCE FIRST. or we can go with the 6 Meters and re-scale the image and see if its about right... But still... the police CAMERA has MOVED and the VAN has TURNED slightly as well.. and we can NOT RECOVER THAT 3D data from a 2D image as it has been LOST.





videos

Also another thing.... in relation to the POLICE being Sloppy over these legal cases they choose to persue against drivers...


Its Always.... N.I.P. OR COURT... N.I.P. OR COURT.. FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...FIXED PENALTY OR COURT...

Its all they can say. They are like a Robot Stuck on Repeat.

Why O' Why always, always.. The court, the court the court... Let the court decide if you went through the lights too late or not, let the court decide, let the court decide...

Its all you bloody hear...

Right. LISTEN.

POLICE. WHAT IS THE DISTANCE AWAY FROM THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS WHERE YOU CAN CONTINUE THROUGH IF TOO CLOSE TO STOP WHEN THE AMBER LIGHT COMES ON?

BEFORE THE OFFENCE OCCURS. TELL ME THE DISTANCE. WHAT IS THE DISTANCE AT 20, 25, 30 and 40MPH. GIVE ME A DISTANCE.

IS IT 3 SECONDS AWAY? EXACTLY? or 4 SECONDS? YOU MUST GIVE BEFORE AN OFFENCE A DISTANCE. DO NOT SAY IF YOU CROSS THE LINE AT RED IT IS AN OFFENCE.


TELL ME THE DISTANCE RANGE FOR THINKING THAT THE POLICE ADVISE WHEN THE AMBER LIGHT SHOWS FOR THE FIRST SECOND OF AMBER OF 3 SECONDS.

WHAT IS THE DISTANCE OF THINKING AND STOPPING? IS IT THE HIGHWAY CODE 23 METERS at 30MPH AND NO OTHER DISTANCE?

OR IS IT 1 SECOND THINKING TIME AS DORSET POLICE WHICH TRANSLATES INTO 1 SECOND RED?

STOP BEING A ROBOT COURT MACHINE. I ASK YOU NOW TO ADVISE DRIVERS OF THE UK, WHAT IS THE UK TRAFFIC LIGHT AMBER APPROACH THINKING AND STOPPING TIME.

NOT THE EMERGENCY STOP TIME. THE REGULAR CASUAL AMBER DECISION MAKING TIME. WHAT. IS. IS. GIVE ME THE DATA.

DO NOT ASK THE COURT FOR THE DATA. YOU GIVE THE DATA TO DRIVERS. WHERE ARE THE FIGURES FOR TRAFFIC LIGHTS THAT GO WITH THE SPEED THRESHOLDS?

I cant believe this... But the distance between the 27mph and 30mph time to try to pin down exactly after the traffic light line will be ..if using the decimal place 22.22222222222.......x3

Which is 66.666666666666666666666666 cm

So you are trying to find a exact distance of anywhere between 22.2222222 cm and 66.66666666cm from a rubbish print out where the image is not clear and there are no proper measuring lines given for the second photo!

Right.... Here are the Traffipax speed camera markings for vehicle speed measurement. With a Short Wheel base assing over.
What is the Time between photos for speed reading? less than 1 second? because the vehicle needs to be next to the lines in both photos to get an accurate reading... Because if like the Macclesfield Traffipax camera traffic lights photos... the vehicle is no over them, and the visual depth of field and perspective "TRUNCATION" of distance effect has set in... how can you use the 2D photo to measure the distance and calculate where the vehicle was 3 seconds earlier when AMBER was First Showing?

These 2 ft wide, three strips only measure about 3mph change in speed. OR are refarance points to places on the side of the vehicle.. (IF YOU EVER GET SENT THE ORIGINAL RESOLUTION IMAGES WITH ANY DETAIL ON THEM THAT IS) and not get fobbed off with a crap print out (They really want to help you dont they?)







I just cannot see the time between the photos with this set up.. being 0.5 seconds... like the Macclesfield traffipax camera... (it must be shorter?) because at 27mph the vehicle isnt even near the line in the 2nd photo... so if it had been 30, or 35mph... its going to be even wider distance!? so even the triple srtip would seem useless and not even any good for a measure for a vehicle bodywork referance point. The Gatsometer markings would be usefull.... but then... you start to imagine why they havent been putting them on,..... because they are a little bit longer than 32 meters! and people will use them for a referance distance, like lamp post spacing.... and that is the exact HOT SPOT for the AMBER PHASE 3 second time!! So they want to GET YOU at that distance, with the traffic light camera, like my Macclesfield photo!

So they cannot really use the gatsometer type camera markings at traffic lights (except that one in Manchester i photographed)

But they have the Gatsometer marks elsewhere.... you get familiar with the distance and could subconsciously use that length as a refarance point for the amber phase of traffic lights!

HERE I HAVE FOUND MY OWN COPY OF THE HIGHWAY CODE!

I have found the Highway code book that i bought... see here...



They are being very SLY and instead of "Emergency stop" distances they have decided to CHANGE the WORDING to "TYPICAL STOPPING DISTANCES" hilarious.



But I WAS CORRECT.. it IS 23 METERS for a 30mph road speed limit... AND GET THIS!! IT DOES SAY THAT THINKING TIMES WILL VARY AND CHANGE FOR LARGER VEHICLES AND DIFFERENT SITUATIONS! AND AN AMBER TRAFFIC LIGHT IS NOT AN EMERGANCY! AND ALSO THE VAN I DRIVE IS LARGER LONG WHEEL BASE! SO IT WILL OFFICIALLY BY THE HIGHWAY CODE BE LONGER THAN 23 METERS! and 36 meters...is the 27mph 3 second distance... Which just happens to be the EXACT NEXT DISTANCE UP in the Highway code! So for a non emergency situation in a larger vehicle than a car... It should be acceptable and these are the Highway code guidelines.

Use a referance point! just not lamp posts in a 30mph lit street or the gatsometer markings as a memory distance!


Also, if i had been going at 30mph not 27, i would have covered an extra 3 and a bit meters.. PLUS there is the EXTRA LENGTH BEHIND ME! the van is 6-7 meters long! and I claim THAT is what triggered the camera, the rear end of the van in the radar area well after I drove past the lights.... with the 3mph SLOWER than 30mph as well, did not help.... But I have been TOLD to drive SLOWER by the POLICE! and SPEED AWARENESS COURSES! and now they are trying to DO ME FOR DRIVING SLOWER THIS TIME! NOT DRIVING 3mph TOO FAST! LIKE OSSETT AND HASLINGDEN!

THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING! ITS NOT ABOUT SPEEDING! THAT WANT TO GET YOU! THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE! TRICK THEM AND CATCH THEM OUT!



They ask you at speed awareness if you know your stopping distances! They know most people do not remember them!
If they did, a lot more people would challenge the Traffic light camera fines!

But also, the NEWER Moder cars/vehicles have a lot shorter stopping distances than OLDER CARS! BUT they have KEPT the OLDER emergency stopping distances! and just said TYPICAL! now!? they still TEACH THE SAME DISTANCES!? and still say it is longer for larger vehicles! but its true that the thinking distance for traffic lights is a lot longer than an emergency stop.. because you have to decide what to do.. and the Dorset 1 second time also makes up for your speed error 26/27/28/29/30 mph and gives time for the length of the vehicle to clear the traffic lights as well...

So there is NO REASON to WANT To prosecute a Driver of a Long wheel base vehicle at 27mph for 0.7 seconds into red..

And I still challenge the speed reading cannot be verified with this set-up they have and the traffipax camera is not set up correctly and they are NOT HELPING YOU WITH ANY KIND OF ROAD MARKINGS OR GUIDE OR A SIGN WHERE THE EXACT 3 SECOND TIME PLACE IS FOR DIFFERENT SPEEDS! you have to work it all out yourself.. Now IS THAT* ADEQUATE WARNING?!

I THINK NOT! And the LACK OF THIS GUIELINES AT A SET OF TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERAS CAN CAUSE DRIVERS TO CONTRAVENE A TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDER! in FACT the HIGHWAY CODE BOOK COULD CAUSE YOU TO! or the LENGTH OF THE LONGER GATOMETER MARKINGS! by Priming your mind with a longer distance for 3 seconds when thinking about fixed cameras!

F.A.O. Simon Byrne
Cheshire Police Headquarters  
Police Station
Address: Clemonds Hey,
Winsford,
Cheshire
CW7 2UA13


REF: 07/SZ/26561/16 Warrington Magistrates, April

Dear Court Presentation officer, Cheshire police Central Ticket Office and Chief of Police Simon Byrne (same guys? (three seperate letters and stamps, again. and another weknend wasted on this case, travel and worry.

I request you WITHDRAW the Charges against me, BEFORE the Court date in April at Warrington Magistrates court.

Reasons.

1 I DID FURNISH DRIVER DETAILS and give evidence in writing with letters & statements to Cheshire Central Ticket office AND Cheshire Liverpool CPS WITHIN the TIME given. (LETTERS ARE ACCEPTABLE) I did Not have to complete only the Police form. A letter of driver details and statement is acceptable in Law.

2. There is no Stated distance in LAW for stopping when the amber light shows. Magistrates do NOT "Make up" distances or pull them from no-where.

What IS the Adequate warning stopping distance and time BY CHESHIRE POLICE?
PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR POLICE ADEQUATE WARNING DISTANCE FOR AMBER TO STOP OR CONTINUE THROUGHTHE TRAFFIC LIGHTS.

Also..
You may find this example of Radar device accuracy of interest.
example
youtu.be/RTNIuc5Rs4I


what is your advised stopping distance guide (highway code) and margins for amber 3 second phase, for a LONG WHEEL BASE VAN, with thinking distance.

PLEASE GIVE THE POLICE ADVISED DISTANCE FROM **CHESHIRE POLICE** ADEQUATE GUIDANCE AND WARNING MUST BE GIVEN TO DRIVERS.

GIVE ME THE QUOTED ADEQUATE WARNING DISTANCE FROM CHESHIRE POLICE FOR AMBER LIGHT STOPPING, FOR A LONG WHEEL BASE VAN IN NON EMERGENCY STOP. You must comply and give me ADEQUATE WARNING.

What is your adequate warning distance, advised by CHESHIRE POLICE.?




PLEASE PROVIDE THE CHESHIRE POLICE STOPPING DISTANCE FOR A LONG WHEEL BASE 3.5T VAN for a 30Mph SPEED LIMIT ROAD, with added allowance for vehicle size and non emergency thinking distance, going by the HIGHWAY CODE.

FOR EVIDENCE TO BE ADMISSIBLE IN COURT THE POLICE MUST HAVE GIVEN ADEQUATE GUIDANCE TO DRIVERS BEFORE AN OFFENCE. I STATE THE ADEQUATE GUIDANCE I WAS INFORMED BY WAS DORSET POLICE WEBSITE WHICH STATES A 1 SECOND THRESHOLD TO COVER THINKING TIME AND VEHICLE SIZE ALLOWANCE. 0.7 SECONDS IS WITHIN THIS TIME.

PLEASE PROVIDE THE CHESHIRE POLICE's ADEQUATE GUIDANCE TO DRIVERS FOR STOPPING DISTANCE OF TRAFFIC LIGHTS WHEN THEY TURN AMBER.

IF YOU CANNOT PROVIDE OR GIVE THE ADEQUATE GUIDANCE THEN THE EVIDENCE CANNOT BE USED FOR PROSECUTION AND IS NOT VALID. THE MAGISTRATES DO NOT GIVE ADEQUATE GUIDANCE DISTANCES AFTER OR DURING A CASE. PLEASE PROVIDE THE POLICE DISTANCES FOR THINKING AND STOPPING A LONG WHEEL BASE VAN WITH NON EMERGENCY THINKING DISTANCE, IF IT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE HIGHWAY CODE. AND IF NOT, PLEASE GIVE GUIDANCE ALLOWANCE FOR LONG VEHICLES.

OR, WITHDRAW THE CHARGES.


Please ensure that both the Police and CPS have evaluated my defence information fully located here online

(4 pages)
bentcop.boards.net/thread/91/macclesfield-silk-fixed-light-camera


PLEASE SEND WRITTEN CONFIRMATION YOU HAVE INVESTIGATED AND CHECKED THE LETTERS I SENT FURNISHING THE CHESHIRE POLICE TICKET OFICE AND LIVERPOOL CPS WITH MY FULL DETAILS AND STATEMENTS THAT WERE SENT SHORTLY AFTER THE N.I.P. WAS SENT OUT, AND GIVE FULL DRIVER DETAILS AND STATEMENTS AND EVIDENCE CONFIRMING I WAS THE DRIVER AT THE TIME OF THE ALLEDGED OFFENCE.



PLEASE CONFIRM THAT DORSET POLICE ARE PUBLISHING 1 SECOND PROSECUTION THRESHOLD FOR TRAFFIC LIGHT OFFENCES AND THAT DRIVERS ACROSS THE UK WILL BE LED TO BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE 1 SECOND THINKING TIME FOR AMBER PHASE, WHICH CORRELATED WITH HIGHWAY CODE STOPPING DISTANCE GUIDELINES AND ADDITIONAL ADVICE FOR LARGER VEHICLES AND THINKING TIME IN NON EMERGENCY STOPPING SITUATIONS



PLEASE PROVIDE THE ORIGINAL HIGH RESOLUTION PHOTOGRAPHS FOR THE OFFENCE, AS PRINT OUT HAVE NO DETAIL TO MEASURE DISTANCE.
Please verify if the Brake lights are illuminated on the vehicle A18EDS in the photograph

Please obtain and Provide me within 3 Days the CCTV video from Cheshire East Council of the Mill Lane Junction. Whatever that camera was filmimg at the time, even if it is not A18EDS

Please send me, within three days the techynical installation details, operation and calibration information for THIS UNIQUE traffipax camera installation. at Mill Lane Macclesfield.

Please explain why the Traffipax Traffic light set up does NOT have measurement markings and HOW the 27mph is verified in comparison to the traffipax speed camera set up, to accurately calculate the distance away from the camera at 3 seconds first amber.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER.

Provide the High resolution photographs, technical data for the specific Mill lane traffic pax installation & operating data of the device and the Cheshire east council CCTV footage.

I WILL update the court with all evidence, forms & information.
I WILL NOT BE ATTENDING WARRINGTOM MAGISTRATES COURT. AS I HAVE EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE FROM A SIMILAR CASE AT BOLTON. AND COURTS CAUSE ME DISTRESS AND PSYCHOLOGICAL HARM. WHICH EFFECT ME FOR YEARS AND YEARS AFTERWARDS.

So, If you are not going to withdraw thre charges, then good luck with the case. I trust that you have contacted Dorset Police as I have requested already so that the DORSET POLICE ADEQUATE GUIDANCE TO UK DRIVERS CAN BE CORRELATED WITH CHESHIRE POLICE TRAFFIC LIGHT STOPPING DISTANCE GUIDANCE.

Thank you

Mr _________

So after proving the police device itself calculates its own speed reading as inaccurate from the times it gives..
It is not accurate to the nearest 4-5cm in distance..

But more than that.. i now have some better video & photos frm measents i did today! and i didnt need anyone to hold the phone because i sellotaped it to the railings! and did two drive-by's.. one before i did the measurements and one with the measurements! and you get a red mini driving past!? AND A POLICE CAR PULLS UP! AND THE WOMAN DOESNT EVEN SEE THE CAMERA!? CHANCES?!

Also some more photos!

But the main point is that in 0.5 seconds time, the VAN ONLY COVERS @27mph... the DISTANCE MEASURED FOR 25MPH!?

SO.... I DO NOT BELIEVE THE TRAFFIC LIGHT CAMERA GIVEN FIGURES AT ALL! NOT FOR THE 0.5 SECONDS IT GIVES!?

Also this is more like the SAT TRACKING which gave a speed of 24 MPH going towards the traffic lights! and the electronic speed sign always says 3 mph less speed?! so is the van speedo even accurate?!





so... the white line before the lights is 4 meters! and the front of the van was 3 meters over the line at alledgedly 0.7 seconds into red....

i did the correct measurements i am certain... for the distance covered... for 25,26,27,28,29,30 and 35mph and the van only moves the distance to the 25mph mark, from where the two little white dots are on the floor by the start of the white line, where the back of the van is level with in the first photo of the police device.. and the police photo also shows a lot further distance covered to photo 2 in the claimed 0.5 seconds than what i timed here!


25mph,26,27,28,29 & 30 plus 35mph mark. should it be calculated from the first photo position, from the 3 second amber point, or to infinity & beyond? or any time-slice? what about variable speed? slowing down?



i painted the 27mph line, can you see it! doesnt look far at all compared to the police photo#2 ! but the white line doesnt look 4 meters long from there but it is!



Someone else been making unofficial markings? or?



power lines under the road... havent i done my research properly?! the traffipax operates from sensors under the road, not radar? this detects when vehicles are driving over the road and when they are waiting at the traffic light? this is all rigged into the traffic light timing computer that the traffic light camera is rigged upto as well? so it doesnt even need or use radar?! you tell me, i am the stupid one here.... i do not know.. i obviously havent done my research properly. i didnt even need to leave the house to do it? my maths is wrong? im just.. stupid?







Approch and decision making zone. The red door is where you can get across the line from at 30mph or so... and anywhere within that well in the amber section.. but as your speed goes less, and more like 28..27..26..25..24mph the distance you can cover gets shorter! but its quite narrowish, even for 2 to three lanes! so you might not realise you are at 27, 26, 25 when the lights go amber and you migfht not realise you are going to be close to red, when you make the decision a second before and commit to it! but then you are upon the lights by then!


i will time the 1, 2 and three seconds over this with the CPS/Dorset police time as well..


I have some more photos of some Macclesfield things but i will put them in the Hello & welcome thread!